zippy Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 His truck has many problems that lead to the first engine to go. In his tuning, the power enrichment was coming in way too late at low rpm, something like 75% or so. His injector size is too small, but with his being an 03' and his timing table being very low (under 10º in boost) due to his truck not being intercooled his duty cycle isn't as high as you'd guess. He also had the problem from the Vortech system with the IAT sensor still being in the maf. He's driving in Alaska cold weather with a non intercooled system. The air past the maf is almost ice cold and the air going in the intake is warm/hot. This is likely more where he ran into some problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riddle Posted October 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 UPDATE: Hey, everyone thanks for the help and insight as to what is going on with my truck,specially in the programming department. Status at this point is the rings in #7 are not sealing. the piston (70%) that I could see looked good. I added oil to the cylinder and compression would be right with the rest of them. treid to free rings up, the cylinder would fire occasionally, my code switched fro p0300 to p0307. Gonna try to pull the piston with it still in the Engine still in the truck. Any Ideas on what could ruin those rings??? That is the same cylineder I had a sleeve put in, but they set the cylinder wall clearence to those pistons.?? heat maybe?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 (edited) You're not going to know until you get the piston out; my guess is that it ran so lean something warped. After you get the piston out you are going to have to take a bore guage and make sure that the hole is still dead square and round, if not then the block has to come out so that hole can be remachined back to spec. And if it got hot enough to warp the cylinder wall then you can assume the piston is likely junk too. I've heard stories of blowing a pinch of comet cleanser w/ compressed air or other such abrasive into the cylinder to encourage the top ring to re-seat but even that is a temporary fix for a few races and I am not at all encouraging this! Another explaination is that the final bore prep (honing) was not correct for the rings used and that all depends on your machinist but all the competent ones I know use the procedure that comes with the rings so I would not think a mistake like that likely. Since the other cylinders are good I would remove the engine (PITA I know) and tear it down and redo that hole *especially* since you hear rattling inside the engine; expect $20-30 for a clean-up hone, a set of rings, and a replacement piston so I would budget $300-400 by the time all is said and done assuming nothing else is wrong (everything else is completely reusable iincluding bearings as long as it all measures within spec). And then I would not push that motor into boost until you have your fueling, IAT, and intercooler issues worked out. Also, if you do find heat damage to the block or rings or piston then you better have the #7 intake & exhaust valve seats re-checked as well, they could likewise be damaged. What did the spark plug look like? If you can get this repaired for under $400 and a couple weekends of effort I would consider myself lucky, most guys that make this mistake usually do not pay that close attention and end-up shattering the piston completely and loosing the entire long-block. Mr. P. Edited October 25, 2007 by Mr. P. (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riddle Posted October 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 Thank's Mr.P The machinest Only wanted my piston, I never gave him the rings?? As for the plug it looked fuel fouled, ( wet, carboned up ) the rest were white-ish. I only wanted to do the piston in the truck cause: I have a 24ft garage and a 20ft truck, lol. last time I pulled the engine I did it outside, 70 degrees. Now the temps are 0 degrees! from the pricing I am finding, to set my truck up right, w/new intake, injectors, intercooler, and IAT mod It is gonna set me back another 4 thousand! Guess I have to do it though, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riddle Posted November 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 UPDATE: I finally got back, and pulled my engine apart in the frame. The problem found was The #7 Cylinder sleeve came loose! If You look close, on the top, you can see where the sleeve slid down, and on the bottom you can see where the rod broke the bottom of the sleeve out. I have a 1000mi on this set up, I am not a machinest, but I dont really see how this is not the machine shops fault? I breifly talked to them and I was very polite, and they said that they would redo the block and maybe even throw in a gasket set. But I have to pull the engine and comlpetely disaasymble it and bring it to them, not to mention it wiped out my 110$ JE piston and $40 ring set. I dont really have ability to pull the engine myself right now. my garage barely fits the truck and it -20 degrees outside! What should I DO or say? Opinions would help please. Thank's Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riddle Posted November 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Parts of sleeve laying in the pan, and another pic of the slid down sleeve from the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 It is the machine shop's fault *entirely* and I would expect them to make it right, even if that meant they need to find you another used block that did not need sleeving. First you need to make some calls, I've never dealt with sleeving systems so I've got no idea if that hole is now salvageable Assuming that it is re-sleevable, you are totally in the right demanding they pay for their mistakes; damned right they owe you a piston, rod, rings, and bearings. If you want to be generous, go ahead and offer to go in with them 1/2 on the cost of the replacement parts (they use their connections to get parts at their cost and you go in 1/2 with them on this, so say $75-150 out of your pocket) but that is optional, they owe you. If you get pushback here is what you do - explain to them that you pay for your mistakes, and you expect them to do no less. Oh yeah - and while you're at it get the crank checked again just in case, you never know if it got tweaked when the rod collided with the sleeve. AFA pulling the engine - go ahead and tear the other head off, get everything else unbolted and ready to pull the short block, even unbolt the motor mounts but leave the pins in there so you can just yank them out later; wait for a day with zero wind (!)and open the garage door 1/2-way up enough to clear the bed, roll the truck back to make room for the cherry picker, staple a drop cloth curtain to the bottom of the garage door so that even though there is no heat at least you have a decent wind break, then chain-up to the block, yank the pins, and pull the short block. Assuming everything is prepared before-hand you can have the block lifted out and on the floor in like 15-mins flat, then push the truck back into the garage and close the door. You can then later take your time disassembling the engine and return to the machine shop for correction. BTW hint for you - you can use a 4-ft length of 3/4" schedule 80 steel pipe to support/rest the transmission on the torsion bars while the motor is out, works like a champ I know this is all a major hassle, sorry to hear about all this, really. Mr. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riddle Posted November 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Thank's, BTW the cylinder head has some pitting head and on the intake valve. They are LS6 CNC proted heads, (yes MR.P they do say "243" on them).per a previouse conversation. Doesn't seem real bad IMO? Maybe ring chunks been hitting it? should I push the Issue on the haed? Should I maybe try to get some Labor out of them? You all have been really helpful here. Let me Know! Thanks, Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolBlueSS Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 I would make them repair the head, too. I wouldn't put that back on the engine. If it wasn't for the sleeve coming loose then the head would be fine. Like Steve said, make them pay for their mistake. Sh1t happens sometimes, and if they've been doing this long enough they should know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 UGH this just keeps getting better That head is not healthy, DON'T run it; it's going to have to be checked for cracks and then assuming it is fine -and- you can run a little higher compression it will have to be decked and the combustion chamber remachined smooth without removing too much material. Also insist on new valves, guides, and seats. If you deck one head then my advise you better have them BOTH decked because you will need shorter pushrods. By the time you get all that labor and parts costs figured I bet that it would be the same price or cheaper to get a bare replacement LS6 CNC head. Mr. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riddle Posted November 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 UPDATE: feeew! Jus had an intense conversation with the machine shop. I stayed mosly calm but it did get a little heated on both ends. This Is the very best I could get out of them: They will refund my original bill, bout $400, resleeve it using a step sleeve design, and assymble my Long block with my supplied head gaskets and piston and ring I allready bought. (and put a 6month/6kmi warrenty on the Long Block) I think this is there absolute best without going to court. They again put everything on the supercharger as always and they didn't want to put themselve into a further position of liability. Took alot for me to get that much! Havn't fully accpeted it yet, but thats whats on the table? What do you guys think? ?? Thank's Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black2003SS Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Court is two years and they know it. If you feel thats the best...I would roll with it. Pay them the $600 for engine removal and have them disassemble it...if they are going to warranty it, let them do it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riddle Posted November 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Court is two years and they know it. If you feel thats the best...I would roll with it. Pay them the $600 for engine removal and have them disassemble it...if they are going to warranty it, let them do it... Hey, thank's, They will not do anything with the removal. they are jus a machine shop. they will re-assymble the long block, cause they do build engines. (but wont touch engine's with power adders.) Thank You though! ~Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 OK so they refund you the original bill ($400), then fix it but you have to supply parts... Did they rebuild/assemble the motor last time? Did you pick it up as a complete long block? If so you have every right to return it to their doorstep and inform them that it is not relevant what went wrong inside the engine but that you paid them an agreed sum for a long block and that you held up your end of the deal (they got paid) and you expect them to hold up theirs. Again, assuming you picked it up already assembled... Mr. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riddle Posted November 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 OK so they refund you the original bill ($400), then fix it but you have to supply parts... Did they rebuild/assemble the motor last time? Did you pick it up as a complete long block? If so you have every right to return it to their doorstep and inform them that it is not relevant what went wrong inside the engine but that you paid them an agreed sum for a long block and that you held up your end of the deal (they got paid) and you expect them to hold up theirs. Again, assuming you picked it up already assembled... Mr. P. Ohh, no Mr.P, I jus brought them the block. I did all the assymbly, they bored 7 holes and sleeved 1 for $400, doallers. Yeh... Kinda hard but, I Called there competitor and they said they step sleeve every block they sleeve. they said That my shop should have done this! it insures the sleeve could not go up cause the heads there and it can not go down cause they leave a (step) wich means they stop there bore right before the bottom of the cylinder so the sleve can sit on that(step in the block) then they deck the top to remove the reaming sleeve on the head side. Thank's Mr.P, Am I on the right track?? Take the Deal? I know all this work I am doing now is cause this sleeve failure? P&S I told them about paying for there mistake like u said, I gave them the analogy "If I t_bone them at an intersection I would be stuck with there complete repair bill!" Thank's Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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