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Kelley Performance 4L65e Build- Blk_SS's 04' SSS


kelleyperformance

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so this is the build thread for Blk_SS aka Alex, and his 2004 Silverado SS w/ 112 Radix. he is a great guy, and came to me recently to get an extensive lowering kit installed. however, he was out drag racing at a local track the weekend before and noticed his tranny didnt feel right. he asked me to check it out when he came to drop truck off for suspension work, tunrs out it was TOAST. stock 65e on an AWD SSS with a Radix, 80k miles. so it was on its last leg :lol: BUT no frown faces, as its on its way to being an awesome truck once again! i promised him since he couldnt be here too often (crazy work schedule) that id take lots of pics along the way and make a build thread. so here it is! heres some pics, and i will post more pics and detailed descriptions of everything in the build as we go :cheers:

 

what he is getting: we are building the 4L65e in his truck to our KP Stage 3 65e- this is roughly the specs of a level 5 FLT (a little more parts than level 5 actually). we rate these transmissions to 500 WHP and garuntee for 1 year, as with all work performed. heres a detailed parts list, its not everything but its most of the things going in-

-Complete rebuild of current 4L65e

-Alto Red Eagle Clutches (Master Clutch Kit- All Clutches) Including RedEagle Full Size 3-4 Clutch Pack (8 fullsize clutches/7 fullsize steels)

-Sonnax Billet Intermediate and 4th/Overdrive Servos, including Sonnax "Long Pin" Servo Pin

-New 13 Vane Pump Rebuild Kit w/ High Pressure/RPM Pump Spring

-Borg Warner 29 Element Double-Caged Forward Sprag (In New Input Sprag Assembly)

-Alto Red 2-4 Wide Band

-New 2-4 Band Drum w/ Reinforced Lugs

-New Alto Molded Pistons

-"Beast" Sun Shell Kit

-Extra Wide Stator Bushing

-All New Thrust Washers, Bearings, and Bushings (Teflon)

-Transgo HD-2 Shift Kit

-Transgo Zinc Coated HD Valvebody Spacer Plate

-New Sonnax Pinless Accumlator Pistons

-B&M Supercooler External Trans Cooler

-New Seals, GM Filter/Pan Gasket, GM Dex VI

 

Thats most parts more or less... This truck doesnt need billet shafts or anything like that. So here are the pics! I removed the trans tonight, and started the tear down as well. Will be starting the rebuild tomorrow, and am waiting on some Alto parts as many are special order.

 

getting ready to come out

DSC01104_zpsbc2b15e6.jpg

 

draining the tcase

DSC01105_zpsbac8c3ee.jpg

 

the old exhaust out- not going back in! make room for a custom magnaflow system :thumbs:

DSC01118_zpsb221cfad.jpg

 

tcase out, crossmember out, TC disconnected from flexplate- getting ready to pull bellhousing bolts

DSC01128_zps5345f4df.jpg

 

trans is out!

DSC01134_zps2db38901.jpg

 

parts and hardware neatly put away :D

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DSC01140_zpsa36daf1a.jpg

 

its ok, you will be together again soon... dont be sad :jester:

DSC01141_zpsa3ef8dd0.jpg

 

meanwhile, 1700 WHP sits dormant :lol: (random, just looked cool to me accidentally parked together)

DSC01145_zpse56ffd12.jpg

 

all ready to be covered in ATF and broken burnt-up parts :D

DSC01148_zps9ee29f3c.jpg

 

more pics coming later, as i get it apart and start building it!

 

yes it is 2 am, yes i am doing this right now not just posting :ninja:

 

John :cheers:

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So is a built 65e good if your just running a radix and nothing to special(crazy). Been really thinking about flt lv5 I don't think I need Lv6/7. And why is there no need for the billet shafts. Thanks and you sir got two badass trucks

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I have to say you are the most dedicated ASE Tech/LSX specialist Ive ever spoken to. Most mechanics shut down shop exactly at 5pm and call it a day......this post is a true testament to your love for these trucks and vehicles with you working on it at 2am. Great job as always sir. Can't wait to see the finished setup! And that 1700hp big killah just sitting dormant, its a piece of art :cheers::chevy:

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So is a built 65e good if your just running a radix and nothing to special(crazy). Been really thinking about flt lv5 I don't think I need Lv6/7. And why is there no need for the billet shafts. Thanks and you sir got two badass trucks

thanks :cheers: this truck (alex's truck in pics) is a bone stock LQ9 04' SSS with a Radix. only mods we are doing is a 3.0" pulley, custom tune, full exhaust with LT headers, CAI... thats going to come out to about 460-470 WHP. for that setup, this build is more than enough. no billet shafts because A. he isnt running it at the track every week with a HUGE torque converter (going with a TBTC or mild yank/pi 2600) although he does track it for fun every once in a while... and B. the power just isnt enough to break the shaft(s). is it possible? sure. will he break them? probably a 10% chance he will. is 10% worth $1100 to you is the question? and in my professional opinion of doing this every day, i told him no its not. he seemed to agree :lol: my SSS- 600+ WHP and it tows 15k lbs weekly (pick up/deliver customer cars/trucks in huge enclosed race trailer) and goes drag racing often. it NEEDS those shafts, it WILL break them. what is your setup exactly?

 

 

Edited by kelleyperformance (see edit history)
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I have to say you are the most dedicated ASE Tech/LSX specialist Ive ever spoken to. Most mechanics shut down shop exactly at 5pm and call it a day......this post is a true testament to your love for these trucks and vehicles with you working on it at 2am. Great job as always sir. Can't wait to see the finished setup! And that 1700hp big killah just sitting dormant, its a piece of art :cheers::chevy:

thanks andrew. i think of it more as i have insomnia, have no life outside this life :lol: .... so if i cant sleep i get shit done :D

 

i dunno if i read your post wrong or if i posted wrong. the 1700 whp was referring to the three vehicles in the pic- the SSS, the JGP, and that customers 04' Cobra on the lift in the back :cheers:

Edited by kelleyperformance (see edit history)
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NOTE: i know this is long, but if you read anything- read this thread. its prob some of the most important trans info you will find, all in one place. happy reading :)

 

ok here is some more. guess i decided to start tearing into it tonight, wasnt really tired. but damn its FREEZING here (prob warm for most you guys :lol: ) now im going to go into something i am going to call: "Practicing Safe Shifting!" and kids this is more important than safe sex, i dont give a DAMN what your PE teacher says!!! HE obviously does NOT have a shift kit!! :jester: plus, are sloppy shifts more fun? HELL no! is safe sex more fun...? NO! :lol: (if someone gets someone pregnant from this, i am hereby not liable LOL) ANYWAYS back on topic- this transmission is a PERFECT example of what WOULD NOT have happened if: 1. a Transgo HD-2 shiftkit were installed when trans was still in good health, 2. the trans fluid was flushed at least every 20k miles (id recommend less since this truck is Magnacharged) with GM or equivalent fluid (no autoparts house brand fluid!) and 3. the vehicle had a proper trans cooler on it. now alex, i am NOT saying this towards you or that you couldve prevented this... you just bought this truck and it was too late even the day you picked it up. this is just a point for people who are modding from stock, and who have healthy transmissions.

 

so lets take a look at his trans fluid, trans filter (this needs to be changed every 50k-60k, or more often it doesnt hurt), and other evidence of why this trans failed. the 4L65e may not be equipped stock to handle these big, powerful trucks but- they arent quite as bad as the wrap they have gotten. its mostly failure from misuse, improper maintenance, or abuse. any trans will fail from those conditions, maybe just not as soon... here is the fluid and what is left in the bottom of the pan-

DSC01152_zps3b110d7a.jpg

this may look bad, but is about an average amount of metallic sludge for a neglected trans. now this trans did NOT fail catastrophically, but would have in the next 200 miles. basically this is a unit where all the clutch packs and bands are worn all the way down, and metallic sludge has overtaken the fluid, killing its ability to "grip" or cause any friction. there was also fluid all inside the trans vent tube, and dirt build-up around where the vent tube exits- showing signs of overheating, as this truck does NOT have an aftermarket external trans cooler, only the tiny stock one. now lets look at the filter, and see when it was most likely last serviced-

DSC01154_zps165cca62.jpg

this filter is OEM, the pan gasket was OEM, and very dry rotted and cracked. by the looks of this and the weight of it, it is most likely the ORIGINAL filter! and this truck has 85k miles on it, supercharged miles. when a filter is this old and packed full of debris, it chokes the pump and lowers line pressure and causes inconsistent pressure. this is a mixture for disaster. the moral of this post- go change your fluid, your filter, and make sure you have a shift kit- stock or not. a properly shift-kitted 4L65e will hold over 420-450 WHP, and will do that for nearly 100k miles. it just needs proper maintenance. since i know alex will keep that up from now on, he will never have another huge build thread, at least not one involving his transmission :lol: i just want to post this to show him whats going on but also to make others aware of the simple, cheap, easy things they can do now to avoid all this time consuming, expensive stuff like this... yes his truck has a Radix on it, but no it did not necessarily " need" a built trans one way or the other... if the above 3 things were done, it would be in perfect working order right now. i am happy to help anyone with this info, of what trans coolers are good, where to get the right shift kit, etc. hopefully this info helps someone. and shows what can happen if proper care is not taken of a vehicle... keep in mind what i said too, this isnt about his truck and him not taking care of it- the previous owner did this. i am just using this to show as an example of how easy it is to avoid this and what it will look like when it is neglected. this is very common and i will prob be doing this again in a few weeks with another truck, so im not "bashing" anyone. most people are not mechanics, and unfortunately most dealers and many shops dont really even know the proper way to take care of something like this... then if a dealer does, they dont perform the work you, the customer, pays for! so like i said, dont take this personally because there are MANY factors that can lead to this, and its usually a combination. for all we know, this previous owner DID pay to have his transmission serviced correctly, but the tech "smoked" the job and just either never did it or didnt do it properly. ive seen it all too often... its important to know who is working on your vehicle. its sad thats how people are now, but its true. i see it every day...

 

now back to his build! :jester: maybe we can make a new thread about that with pics and sticky it??? IMO it wouldnt be a bad idea... shift kit and servos is one of the most asked about things on here... mods what do you think?

 

so here is the beginning of the tear down-

DSC01149_zps5b55732b.jpg

like my custom made table??? :lol: (its got a hole in it!!)

here is the case/valve body with pan and filter removed

DSC01151_zps7e22bfbe.jpg

here is where the servos go in the side of the case, with the servo/pin assembly removed

DSC01162_zpscf4fe2e5.jpg

 

here we will compare the "vette servo" with the stock servo, as i get A LOT of questions about what exactly it is and does-

the one on the left is the vette servo, right is your stock servo. the two identical looking round ones behind the two standing up are the overdrive/4th gear servos, and are identical on the "Vette 4l65e" and your 65e. these do not come with vette servos, as they are not different.

DSC01163_zpsa00f33a6.jpg

you can see how the center of the vette servo (left) is smaller than the stock servo. this allows the outer part, which is larger (left) to have more physical surface area, thus more fluid apply area. this is how your 1-2 shift happens, fluid fills from a passage into the case behind the servo, and "applies" the servo into the servo pin, which applies into your 2-4 band (which in turn creates your 1-2 shift long story short). SO what does a vette servo do? why are your shifts firmer once installed? that larger area, as clearly seen in this picture, allows more fluid to press onto the servo and pin, thus allowing more "clamping force". this means a firmer, more crisp shift. the 4th gear/OD servo works exactly the same way- and here it is separated-

DSC01157_zpsb818aab3.jpg

fluid goes in between those two parts, and applies the pin again (hence why its the 2-4 band) in a slightly different manner to gain 4th gear. so how do we get an even firmer, better 1-2 shift and a decent 3-4 shift? Sonnax makes a full servo and pin assembly, that includes an entire new assembly. heres a picture to show just how much larger it really is-

DSC01164_zps7d730bbf.jpg

DSC01171_zps68479c6c.jpg

that is the Sonnax servo next to the vette servo. so if the vette servo looked larger than the stock, look how small it looks now! and note that the Sonnax also has a HUGE 4th gear servo. also, something always overlooked is LEAKS. this is a hydraulic system, so fluid pressure and volume are the key to its success and functionality. if you have a leak, it doesnt matter how big the servos are. and this transmission WAS leaking on the intermediate/1-2 servo, causing slippage on the shift which leads to total failure... notice how the Sonnax servo has over twice the seals BOTH stock servos, the vette and the stocker, have. this ensures they NEVER leak. even the pin has seals! you will hear many builders say "no dont use those garbage billet aftermarket servos, GM wouldve used them if they were better". but you be the judge- which one looks better engineered and plain smarter to you? yes the Sonnax servos are more money... are they $2500 like a new tranny? NOPE :lol: this is why i recommend these over the vette servo! i need not explain, the pics tell the whole story!

DSC01174_zpsc0fb1003.jpg

stock 4th/OD servo next to Sonnax OD servo

DSC01165_zps78c49f5e.jpg

DSC01166_zps8b4cee55.jpg

Sonnax Pin (first pic) vs stock pin (second)- notice the stock pin has no seals, Sonnax has two! its also longer, so it can be custom ground down by your builder for your specific application to get end play exactly where it needs to be for better longevity/better shifts

DSC01168_zpsa5306a02.jpg

DSC01167_zpsb2e75538.jpg

 

ok thats all for now, gunna get some sleep. tomorrow we pull the rest apart and see the internals! class dismissed! :jester:

 

John :cheers:

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Wow John talking about pulling an all nite er holy crap man. Most these guys haven't met you and I have so I can say your one hell of a good guy. You definitely know your stuff and I can't wait for you to do my project too. Keep up the good work.

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Hey John,

 

Thanks a lot for taking the time to write all this up.

 

Reading this is like getting an education on trans operation and upkeep.

 

I've read a lot of posts about trans upgrades but you are really making a lot of things clear and understandable. :cheers:

 

:pop: Signed on.


Sorry, double posts.

Edited by Downeast Johnny (see edit history)
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Solid parts list. You know about the 2-3 shift valve mod?

 

The only thing I question specially with running a Radix is reinforcing the spline on the input drum with a billet collar.

 

Also kudos for taking the time to have a detailed internal trans thread for everyone. I know myself this would take a lot of time to do.

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thanks :cheers: this truck (alex's truck in pics) is a bone stock LQ9 04' SSS with a Radix. only mods we are doing is a 3.0" pulley, custom tune, full exhaust with LT headers, CAI... thats going to come out to about 460-470 WHP. for that setup, this build is more than enough. no billet shafts because A. he isnt running it at the track every week with a HUGE torque converter (going with a TBTC or mild yank/pi 2600) although he does track it for fun every once in a while... and B. the power just isnt enough to break the shaft(s). is it possible? sure. will he break them? probably a 10% chance he will. is 10% worth $1100 to you is the question? and in my professional opinion of doing this every day, i told him no its not. he seemed to agree :lol: my SSS- 600+ WHP and it tows 15k lbs weekly (pick up/deliver customer cars/trucks in huge enclosed race trailer) and goes drag racing often. it NEEDS those shafts, it WILL break them. what is your setup exactly?

 

 

It's pretty much exactly that: stock block 3.0"pulley, full exhaust with cats, LT headers, stock j tube with the cai, tune, and for me it's just daily driven with the occasional spirited drive.

 

And thanks for your honest opinion John

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Haha yeah. I texted John last night and as i was hitting the send button, i was like "shit. Due to the time change, hes probably asleep. Hope i didnt wake him up." Haha and a minute later he replied "Nope! Not sleeping! Building a trans!" Haha it was close to 2.a.m when he sent me pics of the project. He's a beast.

Haha the bed of my truck looks just like that! Full of driveshafts and a Tcase. My trans is getting built as well. I only hope my builder knows as much as you.. But doubt it. He has been doing scrictly transmission builds and repairs for over 30yrs though. He knows his shit. Only reason im getting it rebuilt is cuz the pump went out. With the shift kit and servos, ive never had a problem with my trans. Like John said, these are essential, as well as maintanence and keeping temps down with a bigger cooler. Ive got the vette servo now, maybe ill have him upgrade it to the sonnax. Will he have to custom grind the shaft for the correct clearances like you had to? He also said there is a 12 pack clutch kit for the 3-4 shift over the stock 5 clutch pack? Is that what you installed in this one? The 8 fullsize clutches and 7steels=15. Maybe thats what he was talking about? Im going to order my PI 2800 triple disc and bring that over to Turbo Tom (the trans guy). Would you recommend upgrading the flex plate? Im still rocking the stock one.

Keep up the good work! Im sure Alex is gonna love the new trans. And talk about customer service! Staying until 2-3am to get a headstart on the build. Thats awesome! :thumbsup:

Edited by MID12sSSS (see edit history)
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