m396 #00-011 Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 I spent $1200 total on parts and labor to get my tranny built with parts that I bought. I used FLPs website to help me get what I thought was the "right" stuff. Also, with the help of a few of you guys. The main parts, the ones that I have heard of failing the most (the more common ones), I matched to the pics on FLPs website. They look exactly the same. It would not surprise me if they didn't produce those parts themselves to sell in the aftermarket world, or just bought the same stuff. The main key, IMO, to keeping your tranny alive is your driving habits. If you run it like you want it to break, eventually it will - even with a FLP or Rossler built tranny. If everyday is a trip to the track for your tranny - then it's just on borrowed time. I agree completely with the driving habits statement. This will determine the life of any Auto transmission. Again, my point is you bought parts and put them together. That will always be cheeper than buying a engineered and tested package, such as Rosler and FLP. Not to say it won't work, but yours isn't tested yet either. ;) As for coming out $1300 ahead, always a plus, as long as your not rebuilding twice as often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenKey Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 Not to say it won't work, but yours isn't tested yet either. ;) You don't know my driving habits. Doesn't have to be in a track environment to beat up a tranny. What would you consider a test? Longevity? X number of trips to the track? I may not have made it to the track, but tune testing (normally done at a track maybe), can be exceptionally hard on a tranny. I would guess I was in the 450+hp WHP range on my last setup, given the dyno numbers that others have posted. At least 15, if not 20, 1/4 mile gtec tuning runs with no tq mgt. Maybe not totally the same environment as the track, but I would say that it has been tested numerous times and still going strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m396 #00-011 Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 Not to say it won't work, but yours isn't tested yet either. ;) You don't know my driving habits. Doesn't have to be in a track environment to beat up a tranny. What would you consider a test? Longevity? X number of trips to the track? I may not have made it to the track, but tune testing (normally done at a track maybe), can be exceptionally hard on a tranny. I would guess I was in the 450+hp WHP range on my last setup, given the dyno numbers that others have posted. At least 15, if not 20, 1/4 mile gtec tuning runs with no tq mgt. Maybe not totally the same environment as the track, but I would say that it has been tested numerous times and still going strong. True, but it's not tested to the levels these other manufactures have, that's all I'm saying. The price is high, but you pay for experiance. Trust me, I wish you the best of luck, and for doing the research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurbochargedBerserker Posted August 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 Part of that money that goes to Rossler or FLP pays for a tranny dyno. Part of it goes to recoup losses while "learing" on warranty trannies like Parish's. Part goes to reputation money. Ben built his for $1200 and neglecting the difference from the cryo treatment that FLP does, that leaves $1300 - $1500 difference. Does dyno testing, R&D, reputation and customer support warrant that much difference? I dunno. Parish says yes and he definitely got his money's worth on support alone. In the end, I think its going to come down to personal comfort levels. I'm not convinced anything but a built 80E will give me that ultimate faith in the gearbox that I had in my old built tremec. I wish the installation of the 80 was as easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSminneapolis Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 as far as cryogenics is concerned, if you guys wanted to do specific parts it could be done. the process is very cheap to do, places usually charge by the pound. trouble is finding a place that does the process right. if done incorrectly, the metal doesn't change a bit but you will not know that until something breaks. there are a lot of people out there that believe that cryogenics is vodoo. mainly because they have never gottan the process done correctly. in the machining and tooling industry i have seen great gains from the treatement of different tools and parts. if you guys are interested in finding a shop near you that can complete the work correctly i would be willing to find a shop for you. or if you want to pay shipping i know of a place that does great work here in MN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTex Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 Personally, I wouldn't spend the money on a FLP. If it were me, I'd buy a 4L80E and manual transfer case. The tuning for the AWD SS says no autotrac, which I think the PCM see as a manual transfer case. That means that you can run the truck in 2WD mode on the streets. Then when you need the full 4wd traction, you can manually engage the system witout the PCM throwing any codes. It should be easy to add the manual shifter in the cab, or rig up an under truck 4WD lever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurbochargedBerserker Posted August 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 as far as cryogenics is concerned, if you guys wanted to do specific parts it could be done. the process is very cheap to do, places usually charge by the pound. trouble is finding a place that does the process right. if done incorrectly, the metal doesn't change a bit but you will not know that until something breaks. there are a lot of people out there that believe that cryogenics is vodoo. mainly because they have never gottan the process done correctly. in the machining and tooling industry i have seen great gains from the treatement of different tools and parts. if you guys are interested in finding a shop near you that can complete the work correctly i would be willing to find a shop for you. or if you want to pay shipping i know of a place that does great work here in MN. I'd be interested SSMN. I think I'd want to go with a known quantity for something like cryo, though, so maybe the shop you already know is the best bet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m396 #00-011 Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 as far as cryogenics is concerned, if you guys wanted to do specific parts it could be done. the process is very cheap to do, places usually charge by the pound. trouble is finding a place that does the process right. if done incorrectly, the metal doesn't change a bit but you will not know that until something breaks. there are a lot of people out there that believe that cryogenics is vodoo. mainly because they have never gottan the process done correctly. in the machining and tooling industry i have seen great gains from the treatement of different tools and parts. if you guys are interested in finding a shop near you that can complete the work correctly i would be willing to find a shop for you. or if you want to pay shipping i know of a place that does great work here in MN. I would cryo anything you can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenKey Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 How about doing the drum? The weakest link in this damn thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwalls54 Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 How about doing the drum? The weakest link in this damn thing? i have been pondering the same idea since i still haven't replaced the used 4l60e drum in mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m396 #00-011 Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 How about doing the drum? The weakest link in this damn thing? i have been pondering the same idea since i still haven't replaced the used 4l60e drum in mine. Yeah, I remember telling you to Cryo that piece when we was in KS. Looks like Ryan can hook you up too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSminneapolis Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 i certainly can get it done for you..or at least direct you to the right guy.. if any of you are interested just send me a PM... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurbochargedBerserker Posted August 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 Well XCMTech found out that there are no standard GM parts to make the 80E swap happen. I've really been thinking about the FLP vs. locally built vs. 80E swap thing in the past week or so and think there are a lot of reasons to buy the FLP unit. The 80E thing sounds like a real headache. New drive shafts, custom machined parts, modified x member, real programming headache (unless I can find the perfect vehicle to scan and copy the stock tranny stuff), no support, etc. Total cost = cost of 80E + drive shafts + machining + labor + fab work +... The locally built unit is attractive, except for the lack of warranty, and the difference in having FLP's techs do the build up based on what they know, and trying to find a local shop that knows anything about even 60Es (not much luck there... new acquiantance with a 2000 LS1 says no one...) I don't want to be constantly wondering if the TH400 is 'close enough' to the 65E ... Total cost = cost of parts + labor to do the rebuild and install The FLP solution sounds like a winning deal at this point. No programming, no modification, no leg work -- pretty much take it out of the box and bolt it up. Total cost = cost of the unit +$250... Plus, there's a warranty on this option and a proven shop supporting it. Sounds better and better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenKey Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 What I did before I made my decision was ask my local speed shop if they knew anyone that had a reputation in building the 4L60 in race proven form. He recommended a shop, I called the guy, took my truck up there to look at it and discuss the parts I had purchased, looked at my parts and then set a date. If anything does happen, at least while I'm in Pensacola, I know I can just take my tranny up to the guy and have anything replaced that may have failed. He is about 8 miles from my house. The tranny is only as good as the parts to me, as I wouldn't let anyone below ASE certification touch mine, or without the experience needed. The parts, IMO, will always be weaker than any expertise out there right now. Didn't Kurt say that he broke two Rossler's? In the long run, it will still be worth it to pursue the 80E option. That is the only thing that will be noticebly stronger than a FLP, or other built tranny. This is only as good as my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurbochargedBerserker Posted August 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 Yeah, I hear ya Ben. I'm thinking a long the same lines as you wrt going to the track -- I really don't want to be an 8 hour a week trackee at this point in my life. I'm thinking that something along the lines of the FLP will last me quite a while if I don't thrash on it with 8 track runs per week... My biggest concern is the very limited life of my stock unit, even with just 7 psi. I don't dare go WOT after my 40 minute drive home as the tranny temps are 190ish by that time and it shifts like a stock 69 power slide by then. When I build the 408 and strap on a T7x, I think its done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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