TurbochargedBerserker Posted August 6, 2004 Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 I have finally given up on the TKO / T56 idea. I called a custom TKO builder and they didn't laugh, but they did say "Hmmm" a lot. Then they said they'd call me if they ever figured out how to do it. On the 4L80E front, I've spoken to a few different resources on that, and basically everyone's telling me that converting to the 80E will require a new transfer case (that or $100,000,000 in machining/hardening/cryo/marsupial training). So... I checked out FLP, Rossler and PACT. FLP looks like they have the best option -- an FLP stage 5 4L65E with a PI 10.5" 5 clutch TC. It's gonna run about $3000 plus installation... That doesn't include the core (but for the core charge, I'll be sending mine on up). For that, I'll get a TC that is "virtually unlimited" as far as torque, and a tranny that is the result of Parish's testing, and is currently in a 427 boost vette putting down 800 rwhp. I asked about the Trailblazer TC, and he did say it would shift great and would be neck snapping quick off the line, but that it would eventually bloat or explode with the amount of torque I want to run, and once it did that, the tranny would be toasted. That makes the $158 option a little more expensive and makes the $800 PI TC sound a lot cheaper. Opinions? $2200 is a lot of tranny work to my stock 65E... Would a local speed shop be able to do as well as FLP? Seems unlikely to me as FLP has been actively developing this option for our truck since Parish went with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted August 6, 2004 Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 i also was thinking about getting a FLP tannny, but i wanted to know what do you actually get for 2200 bucks. Do you know if they have some kind of parts list of what they replace and beef up. it might be worth it to price out the parts seperately. Maybe zippy would know ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurbochargedBerserker Posted August 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 From FLP's site, all of these parts are included: FLP-Level 4: Machine pump body and cover to insure true and flat faces Set pump rotor and slide clearance to .015-.002 thousandths High output pump slide spring Billet aluminum boost valve in pump Install hardened stator shaft in pump cover FLP hi-pro friction 2-4 band with solid lining 8-Borg/Warner .078 hi energy frictions with koleen steels 3-4 clutch Borg/Warner 29 element forward sprag Borg/Warner 4L65E low roller clutch FLP heavy duty sun shell with bearing FLP extreme duty input housing with steel sleeve pressed around input shaft splines with machined overun piston to increase strength New Borg Warner clutches New bushings New GM internal wiring harness New GM solenoids New GM pressure manifold switch New seals, gaskets, and filter Install Transgo HD-2 performance shift kit with 2 washers Transgo vacuum mod kit Corvette servo Aluminum 1-2 and forward accumulator piston upgrade replaces plastic pistons Prep case for vacuum fitting and debur case of flashing Set end play to performance specifications 4L65E includes the above Level 4 parts with the addition of: GM 5 pinion planet assemblies front and rear GM reaction shaft with bearing FLP's extreme duty sun shell with bearing which is stronger than GM's 4L65E shell . LEVEL 5 UPGRADE includes the above Level 4 parts and 4L65E upgrade with the addition of: Cryogenic treated input shaft, output shaft, reaction shaft, and input internal gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_w Posted August 6, 2004 Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 If I'm not mistaken, our '65's have a lot of those parts already installed... I just don't know exactly which ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEAR M UP Posted August 6, 2004 Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 I'll be looking at a new trans in the next month or so....maybe they'll work a deal on two or three? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurbochargedBerserker Posted August 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 I'll be looking at a new trans in the next month or so....maybe they'll work a deal on two or three? Let's hope so -- I talked to Brian earlier today. If I can get a few definites, I'll talk to him about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenKey Posted August 6, 2004 Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 Personally, I don't think FLP has any special magic. All of the parts are available elsewhere. My guess is that most are exactly the same. There is a lot of GM parts they are putting back in there. All of the parts that I had put in mine, look exactly the same as the pics on their website. The input drum, what broke on Matt's, is still the same drum with a collar pressed onto it. Those are available in the aftermarket world. That, at least what I have read, is the weakest link. Matt's input shaft didn't break, but instead the collar on the drum that that shaft is pressed into. Why it is not one solid piece, bewilders me. They are not bulletproof, but much stronger than stock, for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurbochargedBerserker Posted August 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 Hmm... Good points, Ben. What about the cryo treatments? I expect that is a hardening step? I still need to get a hold of someone at Rossler to see what they can do (website doesn't really mention 65Es) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted August 7, 2004 Report Share Posted August 7, 2004 that is pretty well correct. in their level V, they say they treat the input shaft, but in most cases the input shaft isn't going to break. matts broke the collar, but it also put 3 cracks all the way across the input shaft in a flux capacitor type shape which was caused by the collar cracking. rossler is widely used by the top companies like lingenfelter and W2W. they have specific programs for refreshing the trans as well as having solved many of the problems with 3-4 clutch failure and input shaft breakage. if i recall corectly, this car with the rossler trans has the quickest 4L60E pass so far. video link the FLP trans is certainly a nice trans and has held up under some very serious power, but i think you could have yours bulit very similar with readily available parts for considerably less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MN C5 Posted August 7, 2004 Report Share Posted August 7, 2004 that is pretty well correct. in their level V, they say they treat the input shaft, but in most cases the input shaft isn't going to break. matts broke the collar, but it also put 3 cracks all the way across the input shaft in a flux capacitor type shape which was caused by the collar cracking. rossler is widely used by the top companies like lingenfelter and W2W. they have specific programs for refreshing the trans as well as having solved many of the problems with 3-4 clutch failure and input shaft breakage. if i recall corectly, this car with the rossler trans has the quickest 4L60E pass so far. video link the FLP trans is certainly a nice trans and has held up under some very serious power, but i think you could have yours bulit very similar with readily available parts for considerably less. Zip I have to disagree. Go back on LS1Tech and other sites and look at the horror story's. I.E. Spent 2k and it lasted 2 weeks ect.. Many tranny shops have used the right parts and had them fail prematurely. For most I don't think its the right way to go. The setup is very important, some people may have the mechanical aptitude to pull it off correctly just knowing how they work but I'd rather have someone who has experiance to it once (hopefully). My advice is NEVER deal with a Trans Shop that doesn't machine their own parts.. I've had both Rossler and FLP trannys. Both are top notch FLP has slightly better pricing and both have good service. But if your good with the tools like Ben & Zip you can rebuilt it a few times based on the cost of parts only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenKey Posted August 7, 2004 Report Share Posted August 7, 2004 Who it is built by is important, that I'll give you. If a shop doesn't know what it is doing, obviously you could be back pretty quick. FLP does have a pretty good rep. But, their input shaft and drum is just as weak as the one I have in my tranny right now. Most of the other parts don't fail near as much. You can cryo treat an input shaft all you want, but when it spins with a great amount of torque and the drum can't kepp up with it (best way I know to describe it), something is going to give. All FLP does is press a collar on it. It says so right in their description. The same collar that is pressed on my drum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted August 7, 2004 Report Share Posted August 7, 2004 i agree that who builds it can be important in most cases, but aside from clearance issue's and a few other minor details a good trans guy can make it work. what the guys on LS1tech have the most problem with is the 3-4 clutches dying due to poor line rise. not many shops at all can fix that, but it's worth the cost to try someone local first and if you have that problem then turn to someone bigger. parts break and until you get into replacing stuff here and there you won't know what the parts are that fail. spending 2500 on a trans for something that only runs in the 13's has been done more than a few times where the stock trans would have been fine with just better clutches/band and some hydralic changes. some problems guys have with the line rise issue is caused from how they have their programming set up, shift kit incorrectly installed, leaking seals, or other types of failures. i wouldn't have a problem dealing with a trans place that doesn't machine their own parts if they can back up their work. most of the guys i've talked to that have had a trans built for them can name almost everything their builder changed, yet they haven't a clue what they are talking about either way. i wouldn't question a doctor that has a high success record. it's all about finding out what breaks and why it broke. i've ran across enough of the broken parts to see where improvements need to be. in matts for example, the special collar on the input drum around the input shaft would improve it, but taking the shock out that caused the fracture in the first place is what needs to be looked at. basicly the most important is a shop that invests in r&d like flp, rossler, level 10, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c383dfi Posted August 7, 2004 Report Share Posted August 7, 2004 Personally, I don't think FLP has any special magic. All of the parts are available elsewhere. My guess is that most are exactly the same. There is a lot of GM parts they are putting back in there. All of the parts that I had put in mine, look exactly the same as the pics on their website. The input drum, what broke on Matt's, is still the same drum with a collar pressed onto it. Those are available in the aftermarket world. That, at least what I have read, is the weakest link. Matt's input shaft didn't break, but instead the collar on the drum that that shaft is pressed into. Why it is not one solid piece, bewilders me. They are not bulletproof, but much stronger than stock, for sure. I thought I was the only one thinking that. Nice to know I'm in good company. Now, if only I could get away with charging what FLP does........... Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurbochargedBerserker Posted August 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2004 Joe, would you please move to Orlando? Texas is too far to drive. I'm gonna talk to my friend who races a 7 sec ranger on Monday -- only problem is that he's a ford guy... I don't have a lot of faith in tranny shops here -- most of them give me that Jiffy Lube feeling. Little tired... I forgot to post what I came to post My tranny is not as bad off as I thought. I've been driving around with the stock TCC tables for some reason (HPT used to switch files without saving -- I must have done that when I set up my trans file). I also bumped my shift pointes to 5900. WOoooooOOoOoOoo. Fun I still need a replacement / build up plan to handle the 408 and 15+ psi, but I no longer feel like I am going to stranded on the side of the road one morning. BTW, I can power brake my truck past 2000rpm with it just barely surging... I was pretty surprised by that. The launch was nice... threw all the stuff from my little dash cubbies on the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenKey Posted August 9, 2004 Report Share Posted August 9, 2004 How much boost were you at when you launched? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.