zachm89 Posted November 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 buying the whole motor will run me 1700ish, im thinking i might even be able to talk him down to around 1500. im still trying to bug him about parting out what i need and trading him my parts for his but hes being stubborn about it, lol. I would like to go FI, im not arguing that I dont want to ever go that route, but for the time being a cam and heads swap has always been ahead of getting a procharger. i want to keep the truck n/a for as long as i can keep away from it until my right foot itches for more speed, plus im in love with the aggressive sound and power cams can make which is ultimately what i really want. procharger is definitely in the trucks future, but when i say down the road im talking over a year, maybe even two years and by that time i want to completely rebuild the motor because its already got 103xxx miles on it...id like to have some extra peace of mind for when i throw a blower on it. and also by that time i will have bought something else to drive and the truck will become a garage and track slut. right now any more than 2-3 days of down time and im screwed with school 5 days a week and work also. so if anything f**ks up after a blower install id be up shit creek so to speak. I figure with an L92 head and intake swap, a cam speced out by the man Zippy and other little odds and ends I can see the gains that Im looking for, still have decent daily driver ability and not be throwing so much power at it at once that things are going to start failing left and right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detjoe Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 IMO to get an NA Heads cam set up to put down a good time you'll need some converter, or (I dont know) but maybe spray out of the hole to get a decent 60ft?? My last mods w/o converter sucked...when the truck would get up in the RPM's I could feel the power, but the stock converter killed the short time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachm89 Posted November 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 Im running a TCS 3000 converter now and i have been more than pleased with it. But since this is my DD i dont really want to go with any higher of a stall speed if i can avoid it. So matching the new heads/intake and converter i already have to the cam that i go with will be something i discuss with zippy at a later date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detjoe Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/0707gm_sick_flow_less_dough/index.html sick flow less dough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 ...The best point with running an L92 port starts with the price. Dollar for dollar it's hard to beat the overall price of the L92's for intake port flow... It's a production head that flows 330-CFM. Or said differently, over the next few years anyone can go to a junkyard and get a great set of used heads for cheap because there are thousands of them on the roads right now. By comparison, 5-years ago (wow has it been that long?) you would have paid a couple grand for heads that flowed this well, and now you can get them NEW for half that and used for far less. ... these heads ... were designed ... to make big power with a small camshaft... More specifically, the L92 was designed to make significant power with cheap-as-possible valvetrain pieces (springs, locks, pushrods, rockers) and smog/MPG friendly camming and reusing as many 'already-manifactured' parts as possible; to do this the L92 already comes cast about as optimized as it can be, efforts to make this head better generally have not gained very much. Can you get 400-CFM out of this head - NO that will require a different cylinder head like the Darts, or GMPP LSX, or Edelbrocks etc and they will have to be professionally developed at a cost of $2-4K above the cost of the heads themselves to make a product that is night & day a better performer. In a race vehicle where there are rules against engine mods and power adders this cost makes sense, but on the street it's just stupid, there are better ways to get great 'dual-purpose' performance. The short of it basicly is that if you want great drivability and 400-450RWHP, it's hard to beat an L92 port cylinder head with a small cam. Especially after factoring in all the costs. The L92 head is a game-changer for the LS aftermarket; IMO it has pretty-much cut the legs out from under the average engine head porter not because it's great (there are lots of ported heads that flow better) but rather because the L92 is "good enough", 500-550 hp [flywheel] will be the expected norm with this head. The L92 isn't a "great" head, but it IS good enough to make what I will call 'decent' power. Is it a head that makes "competitive power"? No, but 500+ hp is just right for most guys and when combined with a power-adder you get into serious performance territory, serious enough to really break sh!t! With the L92 now so widely available is any regular joe going to spend $2500 for a ported set of heads which flow *maybe* another 30-cfm?? NO because that's only another 30-50 hp and you can add a ton more torque for ton cheaper just by adding a simple nitrous kit. Think of that a minute - a very careful guy can swap a junkyard set of L92's & cam into a 6L, add a 2-stage 225-shot and suddenly *holy crap* that engine's making north of 700-hp and getting kicked off the track and will do it all day every day (on factory cast pistons I will add). I've seen it done, and done a whole lot cheaper than most think and the strategy works. To get the same level of performance out of a head/cam/induction swap will require a head flowing 400-CFM or more, at a cost of well over $8-grand by the time all the receipts are in; it's just ridiculous. I believe that because of the availability of the L92 heads, in 3-4 years there will be three 'ranges' of engine performance in GM trucks - "stock" (350-400hp), "hot street" (500-550 hp), and race (700+ hp) and I think a lot of guys will be in the "hot street" category because used L92s will be affordable upgrades and a good starting point for hard-core performance. So what Zach is wanting to do is IMO just a beginning of the normal progression of hot-rodding the LQ9s. Mr. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 (edited) Zach - $1500 is a great price for that whole engine; too bad it's the low-compression one. Tell him $1500 C-A-S-H while showing him the green and he just might bite. But if he will go that price or better then I would agree with you that probably it would be worth doing. You can scavenge basically the entire top-end of the motor onto your LQ9, adding an upgraded cam/valvetrain and Dr-X harness. Then sell-off the rest of the motor, if you can get the accessories too you can get good money out of them as well. You might also give Scoggin Dickey a call, they were selling new assembled L92s with upgraded springs/locks for under a grand a pair. Mr. P. Edited November 3, 2010 by Mr. P. (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detjoe Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 it makes alot of since if you get the motor for $1500...is that with the intake/injector/throttle body? I missed the 3k converter...you would be in the 13's for sure. so lets say you have this motor, you'll need: x link-$200 L92 cam $400 Bigger injectors $400 Vette FPR or some other way to make your fuel system returnless at the rails The EGR is different... I think there is a better list of parts in my build thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachm89 Posted November 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 it already has 40# injectors and my truck is an 04, already a returnless system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueAKSSS Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 I've read the first page so far and that's about it. I'll give my base opinion on this to start with. The best point with running an L92 port starts with the price. Dollar for dollar it's hard to beat the overall price of the L92's for intake port flow. The L92's aren't really at home all that well with the small bore of the 6.0L, but they do work well. If you use the L92's for what they are really meant for, you will absolutely love them. The best thing with these heads which is what they were designed for is to make big power with a small camshaft. What has been found by myself and many others is that it is very hard to make really big power with L92 as they don't really respond all that well to camshafts over 230 duration. I frequently see them with cams bigger than that, but you'll find that they don't make much of a gain over the same setup with a small cam. For anyone considering running an L92/LS3 port cylinder head I commonly recomend a 6-8 degree split for a naturally aspirated setup and around a 22x/23x duration range. As a comparison stand point an unported 317 cylinder head with a 228/230 cam with a long tube header and a truck intake will make around 390RWHP. The same LQ9 with an unported L92 cylinder head and a 223/231 cam with a long tube header and a truck intake will make around 420RWHP or so. The L92 setup will also have a smoother idle with more vacuum. To make similar power to an unported L92 head you need either a very well ported 243/317 head or an expensive aftermarket head. I'll add to the post in a few. Wife is ready for the hot tub. The short of it basicly is that if you want great drivability and 400-450RWHP, it's hard to beat an L92 port cylinder head with a small cam. That is some great information Zippy! Exactly what you described to me over the phone some time ago! I've built it now. LQ9, L92 Head (68cc chambers), LS3 Intake, and Comp cam 223/231 .610/.617 112lsa and it's going to have a 3200 converter. Just need to install it into my 69' now. http://sdparts.com/details/12629063 Look at these LS3 heads Zach, I don't know anything about them but there only $375 each, complete!! That's a really good deal, change valve springs and throw them on with a cam and intake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachm89 Posted November 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 (edited) well ive been looking around pt.net, ls1tech and ebay for various parts and ive managed to track down some pretty decent parts. Found an LY6 truck manifold ($100) so i dont have to swap over to car style accesories, 90mm 4 bolt throttle body ($100), complete rocker arm kit just incase i find a set of heads that arent complete with rockers ($300). Im trying to get ahold of a couple of guys, one on pt and the other on ls1tech for a set of heads but havent heard back from either of them yet. lemme know what you guys think! Zach http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Complete-LS3-L76-L92-Intake-Rocker-Arm-Kit-w-Plates-/130451398314?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e5f825eaa http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/6-0-6-2-GM-CHEVY-L92-LS3-SQUARE-PORT-INTAKE-MANIFOLD-/270659073160?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f0489b488 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/6-0-6-2-L92-LY6-Throttle-Body-90mm-DBW-LS9-LS3-/220691573179?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item33623e29bb Edited November 11, 2010 by zachm89 (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueAKSSS Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 well ive been looking around pt.net, ls1tech and ebay for various parts and ive managed to track down some pretty decent parts. Found an LY6 truck manifold ($100) so i dont have to swap over to car style accesories, 90mm 4 bolt throttle body ($100), complete rocker arm kit just incase i find a set of heads that arent complete with rockers ($300). Im trying to get ahold of a couple of guys, one on pt and the other on ls1tech for a set of heads but havent heard back from either of them yet. lemme know what you guys think! Zach http://cgi.ebay.com/...=item1e5f825eaa http://cgi.ebay.com/...=item3f0489b488 http://cgi.ebay.com/...=item33623e29bb The intake looks like a good deal along with the throttle body, but the rockers seem expensive, I got both plates and 8 offset intake rockers for $100 from the dealer here. You can reuse the exhaust rockers from your 317 heads. Otherwise sounds like you just need to come up with the heads! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachm89 Posted November 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 yeah, i thought that seemed a little high for the rockers but i wasnt sure. ill probably buy all new exhaust rockers as well so everything is new and i can keep the 317s complete and hopefully sell them off to someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueAKSSS Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 yeah, i thought that seemed a little high for the rockers but i wasnt sure. ill probably buy all new exhaust rockers as well so everything is new and i can keep the 317s complete and hopefully sell them off to someone. Sounds good man, I sold the 317's off mine as well, sold them locally. There not worth to much though it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachm89 Posted November 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 Well I found a used intake, throttle body, fuel rails and injectors off a wrecked truck with an LY6 for $225 shipped, only 8k miles on everything. Again, I was told before that the LY6 motors came stock with 40# injectors, can anyone confirm or check into that for me? I've tried looking around on the Internet but haven't found anything solid. Either way I figured 225 was a pretty damn good deal for the whole setup. Now I just need to find some heads and get this whole thing rolling! Thanks for all the input guys. Zach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 Good deal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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