My 90mm DBW Radix J-Tube conversion

[BenKey]

Now in reality, I know we don't have any of these up and running, but will this allow the radix to flow more air?  (might sound dumb) But I am wondering if this will allow a radix to support more air into a larger Cube engine?

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I think the MP112 blower and intercooler will probably still be limitations. I'm not sure anyone is claiming yet that this new setup will flow more air into the manifold/engine via the blower, just that being less restrictive it lowers IAT's and allows more timing for more power. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong...

 

Nonetheless I WANT ONE!

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it increases VE, takes away alot of inlet restriction, which is the real restriction btw, of course the MP112 will have its limit, but no one is there yet that I've seen.

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The L' guys would argue that I'm sure, since they have had the Eaton 112 much longer than we have. If Apton can port it, maybe you have more - Brian checked in to that a long time ago.

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two different beasts Ben. The MP112(ala' Radix) is 20% more efficient than the Ford/Eaton venture straight out of the box. So while what the L guy's say is the truth, it also doesn't exactly relate to this conversation as they will send their housings out to Apten(for example) to increase its efficiency before we can even start to talk about them as equal units.

Also, what I said above IS the truth, as those statements are from Jerry Magnuson himself, paraphrazed by me

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Yes, slightly different systems, but the same internal turning pieces. They also see boost numbers no GM truck motor will. I have heard as much as 16lbs of boost, not sure if I believe it, but 14lbs is fairly common with the Ford motor. Ours will not be able to compare.

 

So, I'm a skeptic. I had the Radix and took it through a few personal tests. Although I did not have what you guys had. I would like to hear whether or not guys doing this mod have lost any boost at all. I would guess a little loss. You will definitely be able to make more power with the same boost, but the system is limited by the motor it sits on. It just doesn't allow the building of boost as the Ford one would. You would need to hit 24000rpm, guessing, to hit 14lbs of boost and you know that would be impossible just by the pulley combinations alone. If a company made different size crank pulleys - at least you would be more capable there.

 

I applaud what you guys have done. The simple fact is, getting it to do more will require some more tricks. Tricks because it is already maxed the normal way and heat continues to be the killing part.

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BlownChevy saw a 3/4-1 lb increase in boost after the 90mm swap, no other changes. Again, increased VE.

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That's cool. For a grand total of........?

[moregrip]

That's cool.  For a grand total of........?

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8 or 9 lbs

[blownchevy]

I saw damn near a pound of boost and lost about 2 inches of vac in the j-tube. The TB was a 20 RWHP direct bolt on and 50+ with the timing I was able to add. This theory has been repeated on the chassis and engine dyno hundreds of times and will prove to be true on each and every truck that this mod is done too. (The 50 rwhp may be subject to mods to the vehicle)

 

To say that you will loose boost is incorrect, Example: 3/4 garden hose w/ no nozzle on the end is going to have a huge amount of volume, but if you put the nozzle on the end the volume is going to drop considerably. Its simple physics, not much in the world can change that.

 

The lightning blower does not even compare to the Magnuson MP112, its like apples to oranges. One is a top inlet bottom discharge (Lighting blower) and one is a rear inlet and bottom discharge (MP112), the L blower is extremely in-efficient and quite frankly it was the design that won over the function in that application…..Needed to fit where it fit.

 

Next lets talk about the Rotors, yes each has it limitation….everything in life does. The Lightning uses the Gen 4 Rotor group and the MP112 uses the Gen 5. Although both are the same in displacement (size) the Gen 5 is coated with APC (abrade able powder coating) allowing for VE than its predecessor the Gen 4 hence the better flow, lower discharge temps….now has the ability to spin it faster with better results.

 

Simply put, with a larger TB the blower is going to be able to flow more air….BETTER. The MP112 is more than capable of making 10 psi on a 408, will it be outside of its max efficiency…..I am pretty sure it will be just past that line, but it will do it. To say that the Lightning blowers are making 13-14 psi on a 5.4 is a true statement, and the MP112 is more than capable of making 13-14 psi on a motor that is 6 tenths of a cubic inch bigger, been there, done that, got the t-shirt and grew out of it.

[SSLink]

Simply put, with a larger TB the blower is going to be able to flow more air….BETTER.  The MP112 is more than capable of making 10 psi on a 408, will it be outside of its max efficiency…..I am pretty sure it will be just past that line, but it will do it. To say that the Lightning blowers are making 13-14 psi on a 5.4 is a true statement, and the MP112 is more than capable of making 13-14 psi on a motor that is 6 tenths of a cubic inch bigger, been there, done that, got the t-shirt and grew out of it.

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As the TB is upstream from the blower it makes sense that boost is more likely to be gained than lost, but nearly 1lb is more than I would have expected.

 

However, I haven't seen the Radix get near 10 PSI on a 408 and the near one pound of boost on a smaller engine gained from the TB/J-tube mod isn't in my opinion going to tip the scales. Hence my point that the MP112 is still going to have its limitations on a stroker.

 

Once again, at the end of the day I have a Radix on the LQ9 in my truck and am happy to see any mods that can make it perform better. I hope to be proven wrong on the potential so that one day I can grow outta my t-shirt and have a 427 with the MP112 on top making a solid 9 PSI boost.

[blownchevy]

There will be a bigger blower available sooner or later for the 427.

[SSLink]

There will be a bigger blower available sooner or later for the 427.

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That's great, and is in keeping with my original assertion that the MP112 is not sufficient for bigger cube engines. I'm with BenKey and think the limits of the current Radix have been found. or we are very close.

[blownchevy]

I have not seen anyone reach 550+ rwhp yet....sorry the limits have not been reached. I am sitting on 500 rwhp @ 8.5 psi.......I got along way to go on the blower before its tapped out. You are not going to reach the limits on a 6.0, you might find them on the 408 at a certain point....The 427 is a whole nother ball of wax.

[BenKey]

Brian, I knew you'd come here if I talked enough crap about the Radix I'm sure you got some PMs to set the word.

 

Can we see some video footage of the 408/Radix/10lbs boost? Does it only exist in theory? I have yet to see one on any of the sites, not necessarily video, that I go to, but really am interested in how it did. How fast did the blower have to be turned to reach that?

[SSLink]

I have not seen anyone reach 550+ rwhp yet....sorry the limits have not been reached.  I am sitting on 500 rwhp @ 8.5 psi.......I got along way to go on the blower before its tapped out.  You are not going to reach the limits on a 6.0, you  might find them on the 408 at a certain point....The 427 is a whole nother ball of wax.

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I am not sure what you mean by this. There is clearly a limit to the boost the MP112 can produce on a 6.0. Many have flirted with 10 PSI plus and encountered excess heat. I don't think you want to pully down much more than a 2.7 without overspinning the blower.

 

The new TB mod will help, but there is no doubt a limit that some have been close to. And I don't think you can set arbitrary power goals and say that because you haven't reached them, you haven't reached a limit, just because you want to get there.

 

Have we seen the maximum HP a Radixed 6.0 can make? Perhaps not. But once you have maxed out on boost, it is other mods that will get you more power. The inability of the Radix to produce more boost is still a limiting factor, at least compared with other FI systems.

 

Don't get me wrong, I have a Radix because I think it makes great streetable power and about all I would want on my mostly stock bottom end and tranny. I just don't get how you can say you can't reach its limits on a 6.0.

 

And I, too would love to see a Radixed 408 at 10 PSI or even the 6.0 at 14PSI that you mention. I also don't think the 427 at 19 more cubes than the 408 makes it a whole different "ball of wax."

[blownchevy]

you are right, I am wrong....Guess I better back off now.

[BenKey]

you are right, I am wrong....Guess I better back off now.

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Hey...was the 408/10lbs just theroy or have you guys been able to do that in your labs? Serious here...not trying to pick. I really want to know.

[moregrip]

I have not seen anyone reach 550+ rwhp yet....sorry the limits have not been reached.  I am sitting on 500 rwhp @ 8.5 psi.......I got along way to go on the blower before its tapped out.  You are not going to reach the limits on a 6.0, you  might find them on the 408 at a certain point....The 427 is a whole nother ball of wax.

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I am not sure what you mean by this. There is clearly a limit to the boost the MP112 can produce on a 6.0. Many have flirted with 10 PSI plus and encountered excess heat. I don't think you want to pully down much more than a 2.7 without overspinning the blower.

 

The new TB mod will help, but there is no doubt a limit that some have been close to. And I don't think you can set arbitrary power goals and say that because you haven't reached them, you haven't reached a limit, just because you want to get there.

 

Have we seen the maximum HP a Radixed 6.0 can make? Perhaps not. But once you have maxed out on boost, it is other mods that will get you more power. The inability of the Radix to produce more boost is still a limiting factor, at least compared with other FI systems.

 

Don't get me wrong, I have a Radix because I think it makes great streetable power and about all I would want on my mostly stock bottom end and tranny. I just don't get how you can say you can't reach its limits on a 6.0.

 

And I, too would love to see a Radixed 408 at 10 PSI or even the 6.0 at 14PSI that you mention. I also don't think the 427 at 19 more cubes than the 408 makes it a whole different "ball of wax."

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one minute I'm energized to answer all your questions, and then I'm like Shit, I can't type. Why so skeptical? If Jerry Magnuson himself said the Radix will do 10lbs of boost on a 408 would you believe him?

[BenKey]

one minute I'm energized to answer all your questions, and then I'm like Shit, I can't type. Why so skeptical? If Jerry Magnuson himself said the Radix will do 10lbs of boost on a 408 would you believe him?

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I'm not so interested in whether or not it can do it, but can it do it and still remain somewhat effecient. I'm sure on a 408 on some stock heads, not normally seen on a 408, it can be done. I just want to know the specifics of how, or if, it has been done. I would need proof - personally. Seems a job more suited for the coming blower.

 

I realize the cam would need to be somewhat small for a stroker.

[FuelSlut]

been there, done that, got the t-shirt and grew out of it.

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(to lighten things up a bit)

 

you rock man thats hilarious right there, now send me a 90mm adaptor

[SSLink]

Why so skeptical? If Jerry Magnuson himself said the Radix will do 10lbs of boost on a 408 would you believe him?

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I don't mean to show disrespect to Mr. Magnuson, Brian or anyone else. I just know that manufacturer/dealer claims and reality can be two different things and concrete results as evidence are very helpful.

 

I didn't mean to start a p...ing match here. As I have said before, I think the Radix is a great product and when I get some money aside I intend to do the 90mm TB mod and make it even better.

 

However, you can open up the intake tract as much as you want and I don't think you'll get to a streetable 14 PSI on a 6.0 or 10 PSI on a 408 with the MP112. I would love to be proven wrong but I have never seen any evidence to substantiate it.

 

I just don't like exaggerated and unlikely claims to go unchallenged in a forum many rely on for technical assistance. Maybe i should leave it to Ben as he is much more knowledgeable than I am, and a moderator.

 

I really do appreciate what you guys have done here with the research and development on the J-tube and all. I can't thank you enough; I can't wait to try it. Please keep up the good work. You guys do rock!

 

Now I promise - I'll shut the f..k up...

 

All the best.