novanet Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 any one about how much this 224 cam goes for $$$? Brad <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ok...I never could get together with Nelson as to the ordering/details, so I had to go it alone due to my time constraints. I did a little digging and learned that the following is the cam that was referred to in the earlier post for the "95 hp" performance claims: Comp Cam's custom grind on their XE-R lobed LS1 hydraulic roller cam "advertised" 273/277, @.050 224/228 .581/.588 114LSA +4 degree advanced grind their grind # for the above cam is 3722-3724-HR114+4, it is on their 54-000-11 (LS1) cam core. I have ordered it along with their 29618-16 springs and the 7955-16 (7.400) push rods to complete the set. I will be receiving it mid next week with the install to take place on the up-coming weekend after. I will keep you posted. The total price for the cam, springs and rods was approx. $690 through my local speed shop. More details to come as the project progresses... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
383ss Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 thats interesting... I'm running a 221/221 cam now and always thought the guys on here ran puny cams. Allen at FMS recommended the same specs for a cam for me if I swapped. 224/226 .58X lift and 114lsa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenKey Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 I'll give you my truck if you produce that much hp on that small a cam. As far as price for a LSx type cam - anywhere from $375-$415. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSLink Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 thats interesting... I'm running a 221/221 cam now and always thought the guys on here ran puny cams. Allen at FMS recommended the same specs for a cam for me if I swapped. 224/226 .58X lift and 114lsa. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Bigger cams are fine as long as you get a bigger stall and reprogram correctly. Nonetheless BenKey is absolutely right. Ain't no way no how you're gonna get 95 HP out of that cam alone, even with fresh programming. Maybe with ported heads, too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novanet Posted November 8, 2005 Report Share Posted November 8, 2005 thats interesting... I'm running a 221/221 cam now and always thought the guys on here ran puny cams. Allen at FMS recommended the same specs for a cam for me if I swapped. 224/226 .58X lift and 114lsa. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Bigger cams are fine as long as you get a bigger stall and reprogram correctly. Nonetheless BenKey is absolutely right. Ain't no way no how you're gonna get 95 HP out of that cam alone, even with fresh programming. Maybe with ported heads, too... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Just got the cam in the mail today, will be in after the coming weekend. I agree by the way, I'm certainly not expecting 95 horses. Since I already have a custom tune and headers to increase the effciency of the cam , I am hoping for a solid 60-65 HP gain at the motor...what do you guys think? Is this feasible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmtruc Posted November 8, 2005 Report Share Posted November 8, 2005 What's so hard to believe about this? We didn't get any stock numbers from the LQ9 because it already had a cam in it. What sounds fishy about a 440hp LQ9 with a tune and cam. Remember this is on an engine dyno. Figure the engine is putting out about 345fwhp from GM (on this particular dyno, I know it reads a bit low) I get about 57hp from the LQ4's on the dyno, 311fwhp stock --> 368fwhp tuned. I haven't proven a stock LQ9 yet, but let's say it puts out 340fwhp. Throw in a tune that gives it 45hp, now you're up to 390. I'm sure 50hp from a cam isn't too far off. The post didn't say 95 hp from a cam alone, "He told me that they just did a simple cam swap and a Nelson tune (only) and gained 95 HP !!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diggler_d Posted November 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2005 What's so hard to believe about this? We didn't get any stock numbers from the LQ9 because it already had a cam in it. What sounds fishy about a 440hp LQ9 with a tune and cam. Remember this is on an engine dyno. Figure the engine is putting out about 345fwhp from GM (on this particular dyno, I know it reads a bit low) I get about 57hp from the LQ4's on the dyno, 311fwhp stock --> 368fwhp tuned. I haven't proven a stock LQ9 yet, but let's say it puts out 340fwhp. Throw in a tune that gives it 45hp, now you're up to 390. I'm sure 50hp from a cam isn't too far off. The post didn't say 95 hp from a cam alone, "He told me that they just did a simple cam swap and a Nelson tune (only) and gained 95 HP !!" <{POST_SNAPBACK}> thanks allen for clearing that up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSLink Posted November 8, 2005 Report Share Posted November 8, 2005 Allen: With all due respect (and I'm an open-minded guy), are you really getting 45HP from a tune only on the LQ9? That would mean with just programming it can basically equal the output of an LS2. I know GM leaves some on the table, but... Seriously, though... if you can produce before and after dynos on these mods it would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmtruc Posted November 8, 2005 Report Share Posted November 8, 2005 Allen: With all due respect (and I'm an open-minded guy), are you really getting 45HP from a tune only on the LQ9? That would mean with just programming it can basically equal the output of an LS2. I know GM leaves some on the table, but... Seriously, though... if you can produce before and after dynos on these mods it would be great. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> We get 57hp from the LQ4, the LQ9 is a bit hotter, so there's less on the table, but 45fwhp is very obtainable, I seen around 30rwhp on the chassis dyno. In December, we're testing about three different cams on an LQ9 and AED's new head design. The heads aren't ready yet, we've only tested the prototypes but I'll tell you these bad boys are the best flowing heads they've tested on the flow bench, the beat all other head designs out there. They're a new casting as well, not a reworked stock head. We'll probably start with a 224 cam, then a larger cam, then heads, then a more aggressive cam to finish it off. I'll keep you posted, allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novanet Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 any one about how much this 224 cam goes for $$$? Brad <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ok...I never could get together with Nelson as to the ordering/details, so I had to go it alone due to my time constraints. I did a little digging and learned that the following is the cam that was referred to in the earlier post for the "95 hp" performance claims: Comp Cam's custom grind on their XE-R lobed LS1 hydraulic roller cam "advertised" 273/277, @.050 224/228 .581/.588 114LSA +4 degree advanced grind their grind # for the above cam is 3722-3724-HR114+4, it is on their 54-000-11 (LS1) cam core. I have ordered it along with their 29618-16 springs and the 7955-16 (7.400) push rods to complete the set. I will be receiving it mid next week with the install to take place on the up-coming weekend after. I will keep you posted. The total price for the cam, springs and rods was approx. $690 through my local speed shop. More details to come as the project progresses... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Cam's in! The springs were a b!tch, had to use a combination of three different tools to compress them what with the differences in clearance between springs and various underhood obstacle's (firewall, etc...) Also, the valve clearance between the top of the piston and the valve heads was so excessive that using the method of turning the crank to move each set of pistons to their top positions didn't work for me. The valves were still falling down enough (estimated 3/4 of an inch) that none of my spring tools could compress the springs enough to remove the locks! Ended up making a frantic last minute run before closing to the local auto parts store to buy an air hose/spark plug fitting to pressurize the cylinders. After that, it was no prob. So, how does it idle... Had it in for 150 mile now, the idle has settled down somewhat. Still, when truck is cold (it's only been in the low 40's here lately!) it at first jumps up to around 1K on the tack for the first minute. Then after that it settles down to around 600 RPM for the next 2 minutes and shakes the whole truck! You should see my radio antenna waving back and forth from the vibration, it's a trip. After this (three or so minutes total time) it settles in at around 700 RPM and smooths out to a nice slightly lumpy idle...sounds good. So, how does it drive... Like a scalded-a$$ ape!! Pulls much harder from around 2K or so, pulls REALLY hard from around 3K and beyond! Launches much harder with the 3000 stall than the old stock cam (I now spin slightly on cold pavement, something that NEVER happened on the old setup) I'm impressed to say the least. It's more like driving a fast coupe than a truck, don't really know how else to describe it. 60 mph to 100 mph goes by in a flash. Can't wait to get it out to the track...only one small problem...track is closed for the year! Next opportunity won't happen till January first. That's when the local track is open for one day only in the middle of winter for "Hangover Fest!" It's a local thing when the track opens up the morning after New Years Eve and serves free coffee and hot chocolate! Kind of fun...turned my best time of 14.2 during the event last year. Gotta love that 37 degree air! Hoping to make it into the high 13's now. We shall see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterp Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 Cam's in! ... Man that's AWESOME I forget, you still running factory exhaust, or do you have headers? Mr. P. edit - nevermind just read your sig! Nice Nice Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenKey Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 Springs can be difficult without the right pieces. I had good luck with the compress tool that Tbyrne sells that comes with a spark plug fitting for an air connection. I used that to get the springs in (compress tool). I got a lever type tool from NAPA to get them out. Not sure what you mean about not being able to turn over the motor. Remove all your plugs. Stick your finger in the plug hole you are working on, turn until you feel it pushing air and just start to pull air - then stop. Your piston will be at it's highest point in the cylinder at that point. Pretty easy. Not really posting all that for you since it is a moot point for you. But, just in case someone reads your experience and may not want to do their own. Did you do the changes to the tune? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novanet Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 Springs can be difficult without the right pieces. I had good luck with the compress tool that Tbyrne sells that comes with a spark plug fitting for an air connection. I used that to get the springs in (compress tool). I got a lever type tool from NAPA to get them out. Not sure what you mean about not being able to turn over the motor. Remove all your plugs. Stick your finger in the plug hole you are working on, turn until you feel it pushing air and just start to pull air - then stop. Your piston will be at it's highest point in the cylinder at that point. Pretty easy. Not really posting all that for you since it is a moot point for you. But, just in case someone reads your experience and may not want to do their own. Did you do the changes to the tune? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks for the advice, Ben! What I was trying to say is that the instructions on LS1.com seem to say that there are multiple methods of installing new springs and ensuring that you don't drop a valve in the process, and that they are an "either or" choice. I went with their "graceful" (their description) top dead center method to ensure that the pistons were up and to trap the valves to facilitate the spring removal. This did ensure not dropping a valve, but did NOT trap the valves at their upmost travel, which is what is needed to use the various spring install/removal tools. In my engine at least, there was still almost 3/4 of an inch of valve movement while the associated piston was at the top of its travel. All the tools I used needed the valve to be solidly locked against the head. The only way I know how to accomplish this (after my experience) is with the sparkplug air fitting. If you know of another way that doesn't require this specialized tool, please let me know. It would have saved me quite a lot of time and effort and one less tool to purchase... Certainly would not want to dissuade anyone from trying this themselves I found it valuable (literally, not having to pay someone for labor!) and learned a lot for my efforts! (something you can't put a price on...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenKey Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 No, there is not a better way. But, there are better tools. Getting the combo compress tool and air connection in one buy on Tbyrne's site is a good buy. You posted that it took you three different tools to get them on. Did you go to LS1.com, or ls1howto.com? I hope it is the latter, because that has been posted as the better source on here at least 100 times. Saying that, I've never visited the other site (mostly because people that have been serious about LS1 stuff has said the site is worthless) and it may be a good source for this install. Not downing you for your methods, if that is the way you took it. You did what you had to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.justin. Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 If you know of another way that doesn't require this specialized tool, please let me know. It would have saved me quite a lot of time and effort and one less tool to purchase... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not having had to change springs yet, I've never actually tried this, but I've read that you can take an old spark plug wire, bend it in half and push that into the plug hole while you are moving the piston to TDC. Then when the valves do "fall", they are held in place by the wire against the piston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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