SC Question

[C5SilverBullet]

Since the SS is using the Escalade motor, would the Paxton SC for the Escalade work for the SS? I know the SS hasn't been released yet, but I wasn't sure if anyone had an inside scoop. B)

[hotrod]

Now Now Tony don't get ahead of yourself here. You need to get one first. Does anyone have an engine pic by any chance. I don't see why C5SilverBullet SC idea wound't work, there should be plently of room since it is a truck.

[C5SilverBullet]

[hotrod]

Very sweet! B) The air intake looks kinda restricting (sp) but if you got one, we could firgure out a way to make it fit. Should me pretty simple.

[dcairns]

C5SilverBullet-

 

Whipple makes a supercharger for the Escalade and they are promising to do the paperwork to make it available for the Siverado SS

 

-Dave

[hotrod]

C5SilverBullet-

 

Whipple makes a supercharger for the Escalade and they are promising to do the paperwork to make it available for the Siverado SS

 

-Dave

Sweet, there ya go Tony!! B)

[C5SilverBullet]

C5SilverBullet-

 

Whipple makes a supercharger for the Escalade and they are promising to do the paperwork to make it available for the Siverado SS

 

-Dave

B)

[dcairns]

Here is some information from Whipple about their forthcoming supercharger for the SS :

 

"We will be making a kit for the new SS truck. It is the same motor from the 2002 Escalade. The 2003 SS truck will only be a matter of paper work to get a CARB approval number."

 

When I asked how they could add boost to an already high compression engine :

 

"The way that we are capable of doing it is through timing and spark curve. The engine from the Escalade made 470 HP with 5 lbs of boost. We have had to drastically adjust timing to allow the engine and supercharger combination to work properly. The aggressive timing in the computer is how the engine makes its power. We have had to reduce timing and make less power to start making more power. The supercharger made about 40% increase in performance."

 

 

Horsepower 345 stock to 470 supercharged

Torque 380 ft/lbs stock to 532 ft/lbs supercharged

 

With the forced induction playing field leveled, this should be enough to whoop some Lightning butt! I just hope the transmission is up to the task.

 

 

[hotrod]

Here is some information from Whipple about their forthcoming supercharger for the SS :

 

"We will be making a kit for the new SS truck. It is the same motor from the 2002 Escalade. The 2003 SS truck will only be a matter of paper work to get a CARB approval number."

 

When I asked how they could add boost to an already high compression engine :

 

"The way that we are capable of doing it is through timing and spark curve. The engine from the Escalade made 470 HP with 5 lbs of boost. We have had to drastically adjust timing to allow the engine and supercharger combination to work properly. The aggressive timing in the computer is how the engine makes its power. We have had to reduce timing and make less power to start making more power. The supercharger made about 40% increase in performance."

 

 

Horsepower 345 stock to 470 supercharged

Torque 380 ft/lbs stock to 532 ft/lbs supercharged

 

With the forced induction playing field leveled, this should be enough to whoop some Lightning butt! I just hope the transmission is up to the task.

 

 

Are they gonna use the same tranny as the Escalade's 4L60E heavy dudty?? If so then i think it would be ok, for a while. After all it is a 4L60E

[boycer]

Dave,

 

If you talk to them again, ask them if they have any plans for an intercooler. I know that they have one for the 8.1 engine. So hopefully a whipple, exhaust & headers, intake might get around 500 hp. That would be pretty sweet.

 

I did read on another forum that a guy with a supercharged C3 did lose a tranny and was in the process of having it rebuilt.

 

Anybody know of any C3 sites out their? We could probably learn a lot from them and not have to make some of the same mistakes.

 

Lingenfelter claims his C3 puts out 475 hp and only runs 13.3 which will get beat by a modded Lightning(sp) at the track, but it would be interesting on the street. He does have an optional trany upgrade with the package.

[dcairns]

I was wondering about in intercooler too. It seems like an intercooler would be a really good thing, given the high compression of the engine. I didn't see any automotive intercoolers on their website, only marine, but their website seems a bit out of date. I will ask Whipple about the intercooler and let you know. Better yet, I will invite them to post info here.

 

According to the "official specs" the transmission will be the 4L65-E, rather than the Escalade's 4L60-E HD. I am not sure what the difference between a 4L60-E and 4L60-E HD is. Perhaps the 4L60-E HD is the 4L65-E by another name?

 

I found this spec sheet at http://media.gm.com/division/powertrain/index.html Notice the plain 4L60-E is only rated for engines up to 5.7 for the 6.0 they use the 4L65-E. They only rate the 4L65-E for 380 lb-ft of torque. With the supercharger the engine will be putting out 532 lb-ft of torque. This will definitely be putting a strain on the 4L65-E in terms of torque. I guess we have to hope the engineers were being "a wee bit conservative on paper".

 

 

 

Product Specifications

What's New or Changed

Hydra-Matic 4L60-E/4L65-E Transmission (M30/M32)

2003 Model Year

 

Type:

Four speed rear-wheel-drive, electronically controlled, automatic overdrive transmission with a torque converter clutch

 

Engine Range:

2.2L - 5.7L (M30)

6.0L (M32)

 

Maximum Engine Torque:

360 lb-ft (488 Nm)(M30)(As found in Corvette)

380 lb-ft (515 Nm)(M32)

 

Maximum Gearbox Torque:

670 lb-ft (910 Nm)(M32)

610 lb-ft (827 Nm)(M30)

 

Gear Ratios:

 

First: 3.059

Second: 1.625

Third: 1.000

Fourth: .0696

Reverse: 2.294

 

 

Maximum Shift Speed:

1-2 6100 rpm (m30)

2-3 6100 rpm (m30)

3-4 6100 rpm (m30)

 

Maximum Shift Speed:

1-2 5600 rpm (m32)

2-3 5600 rpm (m32)

3-4 5600 rpm (m32)

 

Maximum Validated Gross Vehicle Weight:

8600 lb (3900 kg)

 

7-Position Quadrant:

P, R, N, OD, D, 2, 1

P, R, N, OD, 3, 2, 1

 

Case Material:

Die cast aluminum

 

CONTROL SYSTEMS:

 

Shift Pattern:

(2) Two-way on/off solenoids

 

Shift Quality:

Variable bleed Solenoid

 

Torque Converter Clutch:

Pulse width modulated solenoid control

 

Converter Size:

245mm, 280mm, 298mm & 300mm (M30)

300mm (M32) (reference) (Diameter of torque converter turbine)

 

Fluid Type:

DEXIII

 

Transmission Weight:

Wet: 74.0 kg (163.2 lb) - 88.3 kg (194.6 lb)

 

Fluid Capacity (Approximate):

Dry: 7.9L (8.4 qt) (with 245 mm converter)

Dry: 10.8L (11.4 qt) (with 300 mm converter)

 

Pressure Taps Available:

Line pressure

[Jared]

It seems that there will not be an intercooler upgrade for the SS truck. The way it is designed doesn't allow for it. The discharge of the compressor goes right into the intake, leaving no room for the ducting of an intercooler. I have seen conflicting information about adding a set of headers and exhaust system to the 6.0 liter engine with a Whipple Supercharger. The problem that occurs is that it you lose all your back pressure. I have driven alot of vehicles that feel sluggish off the line and then come alive about 3000 RPMs on up. The problem with that is that most trucks are already pulling away from you by that time. The best results will be to put a good quality exhaust system and the Whipple Supercharger.

[dcairns]

I just got a reply from Vincent at Whipple and he says

 

"The way the kit is designed doesn't allow for an intercooler to be added at any point. "

 

He did say he would drop by this site and answer an questions, so put your thinking caps on

 

-Dave

[boycer]

Vincent,

 

Thanks for taking the time to stop buy and answer our questions.

 

Are headers an option?

 

Is head work an option?

 

What air intake do you recommend?

 

What about exhaust?

 

Is a smaller pulley avialable/recommended for more boost?

 

What/if any off these mods helped you get 470 out of an Escalade or were they just the whipple and everything else stock?

[Jared]

When you are adding parts to a vehicle to make power, you have to first figure out where you want your power to be made. Being that the SS is going to be an Extra cab vehicle, it will have alot of extra weight to tote around. To any supercharged vehicle, a set of headers will add power. Don't be confused that there are two meanings of power. There is Horsepower, that us men all crave and measure things by. The second is Torque, the part of the power that most of use guys forget that exists. As we all know that peak Horsepower is made at the peak RPMs and peak Torque is made lower in the RPM range depending upon your Bolt-On part combination.

 

When you add headers and an exhaust system to a stock vehicle it helps the engine breath better. It helps the engine make HP and TQ. The engine needs that relief in back pressure to make power. When you go with any type of forced induction system it help doesn't require that relief in back pressure needed with a naturally aspirated motor. From my experience, I wouldn't add a set of headers unless you are looking for top end performance only. I have seen headers affect the low end Torque and make the vehicle feel sluggish off the line. I'm not trying to scare anyone, but I think that it is often overlooked by people trying to sell parts that don't really work together to make the vehicle perform correctly. Whipple uses the stock air box that is modified with a high flow replacement element and small external filter to draw enough air for the engine. I think that most other manufactures use the stock air box or use some type of open air element with their kit.

 

I think that using a good quality exhaust system that is mandrel bent definately helps the air flow and gives the right amount of back pressure with either a naturally aspriated motor or supercharged engine.

 

Doing any type of cylinder head porting on these new vehicles doesn't help as much as it used to on the early cylinder heads. These new heads are made so much better than those of the old days. My own opinion is, that it would be a waste of your money to crack the motor open and port the heads. All companies offer a smaller pulley for those customers that have their boost affected by the elevation. There is no guy on this forum that wouldn't run more boost and make more power. The problem with that is, the SS wasn't made with the right compression ratio to add more boost without running higher octane fuel and different timing. GM has used a more aggresive timing table along with the high compression to make its power. The problem is that it leaves supercharger manufactures little to work with. The Whipple Supercharger for the Escalade uses 5 lbs of boost to make its power. Because the compression of the engine doesn't cater to supercharger manufactures it isn't recommended to keep the vehicle reliable as a daily driver. The testing of the Escalade was done with the Whipple Supercharger only. Testing on all vehicles are done with vehicles in stock form. Whipple feels that most customers may not make any changes to their vehicle. It wouldn't show what a stock vehicle can do by itself.

 

I hope that this post sheds a little light if anyone is in the dark about adding superchargers.