How do I make torque?

[ctrow]

Here's the deal. There's a saying There's no replacement for displacement. I would think having a displacement of 364ci that we would be making some pretty good torque figures.

 

The question stems from a couple of articles. One is from the Oct 2002 issue of Truckin' where it covers putting a 6.0L in a regular cab. It's not just a 6.0L but one that was massaged by LPE. It had different heads, cam, pistons, some porting, etc. Specs for the motor were 420 HP and 410 ft/lbs.

 

The other article was in the July 2003 Truck Trend that compared a Ford HD, a regular cab Hemi Dodge, and the awesome SS(not that I'm biased). Looking at the Fords numbers, we have more HP but it's got 45 more ft/lbs of torque. I'm guessing it's because of the S/C.

 

Here's my question, how do I make more torque via NA? I like superchargers, don't get me wrong, but they seem fairly expensive. I'm not by any means an expert but I've always been told torque makes the truck move. HP keeps it going or something like that. Regardless, torque is what I feel off of the line.

 

I would like to eventually do something like heads, cam, etc. but I would like more than what the LPE package gives. I'd like something in the upper 400's preferably. Any ideas on how to achieve that?

[SinisterSS]

Anything that will add more oxygen & fuel!

 

 

The SS has a very flat torque curve from the factory with 300+ throughout the rpm range.

 

One issue with more torque is the quickly finding the limitations of the rest of the drivetrain - the 4L65E is rated for a max of 380 lb-ft of torque. For longevity, a swap to a 4L85E, rated at 460 lb-ft, may be a good idea.

[BigTex]

The SS is no where close in torque as the HD. As far as torque is concerned, a screw type blower rules. Well, actually, nitrous rules, but the screw is a close second. Take a look in the newest Truckin mag at the article on the pulley upgrade on the HD. Its making well over 400 ft pounds of torque in the low rpms. That thing is putting out alot more torque than we'll ever see without a power adder.

[ctrow]

BigTex, I'm trying to remember, were you the one building the 427 with N20?

[SinisterSS]

The SS is no where close in torque as the HD.

 

 

HD 6.0L engine is rated at 360 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm w/ 4L65E transmission

HD 8.1L engine is rated at 455 lb-ft @ 3200 rpm w/ 4L85E transmission

 

SS 6.0L engine is rated at 380 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm w/ 4L65E transmission

 

Last I checked, 380 beats 360. SS 6.0 > HD 6.0 torque.

[ctrow]

I think BigTex meant the Ford Harley Davidson and not the 6.0L Heavy Duty.

[SinisterSS]

Oops, sorry, let me rephrase > F*rd

 

[SSilverado60]

A mild cam and tuning will give you more torque, there are many cams that will make the truck more torquey without hurting top end.

 

If you really want torque like the S/C motors, your gonna have to go with an S/C or NOS.

 

Bolt ons and a mild cam will give you the most N/A torque you can get

[gabbett1]

I'm not by any means an expert but I've always been told torque makes the truck move. HP keeps it going or something like that. Regardless, torque is what I feel off of the line.

 

Horsepower is just a derivative of torque. Torque is in essance the only thing that really matters. There is no way to get a horsepower reading without the torque numbers. So in essance horsepower numbers is just something that gives someone an idea of how an engine performs.

[creaker]

Horsepower = (Torque * RPM)/5252

[SinisterSS]

Another way to think about it - Torque = Force times distance. Ever use a torque wrench? Or a long pipe on a ratchet? One pound of force applied at a distance of 1 foot = 1 lb-ft.

 

The greater the torque, the bigger the lever and the quicker or "easier" your vehicle will accelerate.

 

Dynos measure torque and use the above formula to calculate horsepower.

 

James Watt invented the notion of horsepower back in the 1700s. How accurate is it actual to a horse? ???

 

Horsepower is how fast your engine can deliver or produce torque. Lots of horsepower can mean two things - 1. The engine can rev very fast (like overhead valve 4 cyl. engines) 2. The engine makes a lot of torque at high rpm (V8s)

 

For most people, torque is more important than horsepower since typical driving conditions never see more than 3000 rpm. Low end torque can be increased by a more restritice exhaust and intake. For all out performance (i.e. 1/4 mile) the high-rpm band comes into play. A free-flow intake and exhaust will help the engine breathe more which allows for better "reving" ability but those mods have a tendency to kill low-end torque. Headers and a cam also can move the power curve up or allow the engine to rev a few 100 more rpms.

 

Tim "The Toolman" Taylor summed it up best - MORE POWER!

[creaker]

Generally speaking, for maximum acceleration you want to keep the engine in the peak horsepower band. Thus you have power-braking at launch & shifting-down to pass at speed.

 

Because of the equation, it is true that below 5252 RPM, an engines torque will ALWAYS be higher than the horsepower value. Likewise, above 5252 RPM, the reverse is true (horsepower is ALWAYS higher than torque value). And at the magical 5252 RPM, torque and horsepower are identical.

 

You can use this to check any torque vs. horsepower curve for bullshit values.

[VOLLEYMAN08]

Anything that will add more oxygen & fuel!

 

 

The SS has a very flat torque curve from the factory with 300+ throughout the rpm range.

 

One issue with more torque is the quickly finding the limitations of the rest of the drivetrain - the 4L65E is rated for a max of 380 lb-ft of torque. For longevity, a swap to a 4L85E, rated at 460 lb-ft, may be a good idea.

BUT WHAT ARE THE BOXES RATED AT. I KNOW THAT MY TAHOE WAS LIKE 470 FT LBS AS TESTED FROM CAR AND DRIVER ( I THINK THATS THE NUMBER I CAME UP WITH) ITS BEEN A WHILE. I AM NOT THE SMARTEST GEAR HEAD BUT JUST BECAUSE THE TRANNY IS REATED AT A CERTIAN # OF FT LBS IT DOSENT ALWAYS MEAN THAT THE REST OF THE DRIVE TRAIN CAN TAKE THE STRAIN OF MAXIMUM FT LBS OF WHAT THE TRANNY IS RATED FOR. LET ALONE THE DRIVE SHAFT AND OR THE U-JOINT. STILL NOT ALL TO FAMILIAR WITH MY NEW SS DRIVE TRAIN BUT AM LEARNING QUICKLY.

 

ANYBODY HAVE BETTER INFO THAT ME ( REMARKS AND CRITICISM WELCOME)

PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF I AM WRONG?

 

R/

VMAN

[Krambo]

James Watt invented the notion of horsepower back in the 1700s. How accurate is it actual to a horse? ???

 

 

 

Tim "The Toolman" Taylor summed it up best - MORE POWER!

I know this doesn't apply to our SS's but it does apply to the theory you are discussing:

 

In SPL car audio competing, we often measure the power of our systems in HP numbers in order to "tune" our systems in relation to the atmospheric pressure and relative density of the ambient air. Also to figure out when the cones on the subs will tear. (FYI, a 15" CV Stroker will tear its cone at 2.496 coil HP, 75 in2 of port area @ 45HHz in 5.8 ft3 enclosure.) By knowing the "compressibility" of the ambient air (temp, barometric pressure, humidity & density) we know what HP to run our systems at to prevent cone tearing. That's just one use of HP numbers in dB Drag

 

Our competition vehicle can generate about 50 horsepower (about 35,000 watts). In many cases, an SPL competition car's system has more horsepower than the cars motor

 

1 HP = 746 watts (just another way of converting a unit of power)

 

O.K. Back to trucks!!!

[pharmb]

Interesting Post !